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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 15, 2010 9:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Two Qs for the Experts

Seems like a fairly quiet day here on the GD forum. I have a couple of queries for all the folks who have put in lots of time listening. Don't want you to spend lots of time researching, but if you happen to know... much appreciated.

1. Sometime in my listening travels this year I heard a Dark Star that transitioned into (or ended) with a gorgeous pure bluegrass type of jam, about 3-5 minutes worth. The band really digs into it. Can you point me to it? Was there more than one? Hazy memory tells me it might be between 70-74.

2. The pedal-steel intro for Dire Wolf on Workingman's ... JG played similar pedal steel a few times on this in 69... did he ever simulate this opening on electric guitar, rather than just the C - B - A - G bass note opening? Would love to hear this as a guitar lick. (and no, not the acoustic opening as on Reckoning.) Thoughts?

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Sep 15, 2010 10:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

I believe your first query is found in a Dark Star > El Paso from December of 1971... perhaps from Texas?

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Sep 15, 2010 3:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

Your gorgeous jam starts at the 16 minute mark here

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-03-23.sbd.goodbear.137.sbefail.shnf


One of my favorite GD performances, ever.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 15, 2010 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

1. The Dark Star is 9-21-72.

2. I don't recall any unusual electric-guitar openings for Dire Wolf, usually Garcia just plonks out the chords. The song was done differently in June '69 though, they started out doing it acoustically; then on 6/27/69, Weir sings it with Garcia on pedal steel.

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Poster: deadmax Date: Sep 15, 2010 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

Very providential to hear that. I'm about to listen to that show. Just put the DP on my MP3 and will review it.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 15, 2010 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

In that time frame , that is pretty f'ing amazing LiA .

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 15, 2010 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

What's interesting is, aside from the various Dark Star > El Pasos or SoToWs or Uncles that they'd do occasionally, I don't remember offhand another excursion like that bluegrass jam on 9/21/72...(though that Sugar Magnolia-type jam on 3/23/72 is kinda countryish)
But, just a week later, on 9/27, you get that unique Dark Star>Cumberland.

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2010-09-15 19:33:48

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Poster: Jim F Date: Sep 16, 2010 4:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

Oh, and I gotta give you extra credit for guessing it was 9/21. Sure I know that jam good and well, but when somebody asks about a "bluegrassy jam" in a Dark Star, I am totally clueless. I wouldn't really classify that as bluegrassy. Props to you for somehow putting it together.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 15, 2010 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

You have two hours to answer these questions ,
The DW in question was played 220ish times . That is a big number .
I can recall how they played DW for a decent number of that total . They could have played that ( very sweet ) intro all of 1993 and I would have no clue . That's combat pay my friends . And how many DW do you know like D/S ? Call it a minute to find and listen to them ? Less ?
The D/S I can see being a crumb easier , beginning at 130ish times played , '69 - '74 . You have to know many D/S to play the remainder of the one's you are unsure of the last several minutes of each one . Just that one question under 2 hours ...
Indeed and unashamedly so do I write that you , LiA , in action and merit befit of of a scholar , are the guru of the all that is obvious to obscure in the universe of GD knowledge . Thank-you .

btw - This month was one of my favs ,

http://deadessays.blogspot.com/

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 15, 2010 7:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

Ah, you're too kind...
I don't see myself as much of a guru, though! Or even an expert.
I mean in this case, 9/21/72 was the instant & obvious answer, didn't take a second to think of it. (Though I see a case can be made for 3/23/72, I don't think that's the one unclejohn heard; it's not half as 'bluegrassy', tho it's well worth hearing too.) 9/21/72 happens to be a very famous & well-known Star, and I happen to be...well....something of a Dark Star fan.

Now if you asked, say, what was a Dire Wolf in '93 where Jerry forgot all the words, or when was some obscure Victim or the Crime>Dire Wolf segue, well then I'd be clueless. What Dead knowledge I have doesn't range too far! Dead listeners who listen randomly to all eras without specializing in one, have many advantages over me.

I hope to have a new post up soon...probably most people won't be too interested in this one, but I tend to write these things for myself, what would *I* want to read, and try to fill in the gaps of Dead-writings I wish were out there...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Sep 16, 2010 8:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

Lots of interest here.

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Poster: Jim F Date: Sep 16, 2010 4:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

I feel ya, I can freak out my friends with my knowledge up to about '78, they can play a minute or two of something and I can usually guess the date, if not exact then within a few days. We used to do that all the time when I hung out in the medical/"tripper tent" at a local festival I used to be a regular at, we'd play the GD channel on satellite and they would challenge me to guess the date. When it was a 70's show, it just seemed so obvious, I bet 90% of us here could do the same thing.

But try and get me to answer any trivia about anything from the 80's and up? I'm totally clueless. When was the first "Samba" played? Hell if I know, but I can tell you how long in minutes every Other One from February 1969 is (ok that's a bit of an exaggeration...).

When it comes to the earlier stuff, I pride myself on being a "human encyclopedia" as my friends would say. When it comes to my lack of obsessive knowledge of the later years, I am also proud of that lol.

Really, any idiot can memorize this stuff if you spend as much time as I have over the years with the Deadbase in the bathroom. Though that's more statistical, I know a fair bit but I probably don't know all that much statistical stuff, really, I'd say the bulk of my knowledge is far more about the particular sound quality or mix of a specific show, and especially laying out the framework for a big Other One or Dark Star jam from 72-74, that sort of thing ("Oh, 9/24/72? The first verse comes at around 11 minutes, then Phil takes this almost spooky sounding lead that will give you the shivers!").

Humor me here, I have extremely little to brag about in my otherwise boring and untalented life, but I have no humbleness when discussing my knowledge of GD. I dunno if I'm a Lightintoashes, but I think I could give him a run for his money. :-P

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 16, 2010 5:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

I think that you and LiA have shown you know this stuff, and if you can't brag here, and be appreciated, where can ya?

I really never got far enough with it...I can play the DEAD trivia game, but there was one night my kids beat me at it, so I am no expert on it all...I really only know a very limited range, but it is very general knowledge, no specific stuff. Who was in the band when, what did they sound like when, and could roughly guess the times of shows, but only for about 50-60 shows period. Hell, even within the area I love I only really know about half the shows. I could tell you we were "in" 72 or 73, but not anything more than that; and nothing after 73 even exists for me...unless I was literally "there".

And it really is true...I haven't listened to the DEAD since prior to my little Australia trip in May. I think I really burned out on em. I am sorta sad about that...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Sep 16, 2010 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

What is it about DeadBase in the bathroom ?
One can rack up many an hour over a year , looking at set lists , reading reviews , last time played , time between songs ..
It isn't Any kind of idiot who can memorize DB . It's a special kind .
I wish they had a game show like 'Guess that Tune ' ( I'll take 2 notes , Al ) or 'Jeopardy' for heads . In the final lightning round , ladies and gentlemen , it's LiA , Jim , and CH for a Brand NEW CAR !

Your life isn't boring J , you have us !
Untalented ... just kidding--> 18 smiley faces

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Sep 15, 2010 7:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

"I hope to have a new post up soon...probably most people won't be too interested in this one..."

I'm always interested.

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Poster: vapors Date: Sep 15, 2010 7:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

I’ll give you as long as necessary, or until someone else tells me, or I figure it out for myself, at which point I’ll delete this post, but what is SoToW?

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 15, 2010 7:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

SoToW - sorry about the obscurity -
Sittin' on Top of the World. Comes out of Dark Star on 10/21/71 and 12/5/71.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Sep 15, 2010 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Two Qs for the Experts

micah said it best - I'm impressed. very grateful... now I have two new Stars to explore in addition to the one I wanted!

This post was modified by unclejohn52 on 2010-09-15 19:44:10